Posts by AK

12

If pastor Russel had zeal at all it was at least in the beginning based on

by ko38 in

.

honesty.from what i have read he did shed a light for a brief time.what we need is a true prophet to teach us.until that time comes i can only hope in those things not beheld.anyone reading ray franz will agree with me.if we give up as individuals what is that saying to satan.. i say we dont give up.jesus says to be always striving for truth and righteousness.hey people we are better than that.you all know who you are,lets not foresake our hope in the lord.no matter what even if we know that he is not coming in our lifetime should we not be as a fine servant rather than a ridicueling one?it is your call,but for some of us we are starting to feel our own mortality,ie.. getting older.at the very least why dont we trust in something.. iwe all know the gb is wrong or we wouldnt be here.sorry for preaching its just something i believe.opinions welcome

AK - Jeff

Jesus said the "spirit" would be your teacher.

I like that Gumby. Good point.

It is amazing looking back, how much time we spent as witnesses 'adapting' the old Hebrew laws and priciples to today. How much more we would have benefitted by just reading our own copies of the Bible, especially the words of Jesus, and applying those principles.

Jesus said he 'was the way and the truth and the life'.... I am glad he said that, for otherwise upon exit of this organization I would not know where to turn. I do. It is not easy, for we have to use a part of our anatomy that was off-limits in the org - Our Brains.

Jeff

17

Faithful and Discreet Slave "class"

by snbdye2000 in

i have a question as to who the wtbts teaches is the faithful and discreet slave.

i am not a jw, never have been.

my husband though is reading a lot of their books and such.

AK - Jeff

You are correct that the organization of Jehovah's witnesses (then known as International Bible Students) did until at least 1927 teach that Charles Taze Russell was 'the faithful and wise servant'.

Since your husband will only accept the current view as of any value (gee - he already sounds like a witness to me) then this quotation should interest and answer the question;

Keep

in Step!

22

Kingdom interests on the earth have been entrusted to "the faithful and discreet slave," which is represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) The Governing Body is primarily concerned with providing spiritual instruction and direction for the Christian congregation

Watchtower 2001 1/15 page 21 Article "Keep in Step with Jehovah's Organization

Many books have been written that may aid your research - I will recommend two that I have read and one that I am soon to read and have seen parts of -

Crisis of Conscience Raymond Franz (Former Member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses)

In Search of Christian Freedom Raymond Franz

Apocalypse Delayed Jim Penton

As stated by others in this thread - please take this issue seriously - if your husband becomes a witness he is not just taking on a religion as vehicle to worship God - he is becoming a vehicle of an organization. Read some of these threads and see just how much pain has been endured by thousands. Some, most believed just as he is doing, that is was 'the truth' - now that we have wasted lives and years finding out that is isn't - we are being shunned and treated insolently by those who were our friends, but who now reject us as 'enemies of God' - our sin? Thinking and serving God as we see fit. Be careful.

Success to you -

Jeff

26

The system of privileges in WTS - any thoughts on how it works?

by Pole in

wts has quite a few traits which are typical of totalitarian systems.

many of them have been demonstrated on this board (labeling, shunning, monopoly on truth, propaganda, indoctrination, polarization of reality etc.)..

there is one more aspect of the wts religion which can also be observed in most totalitarian systems and that is the system of granting privileges.

AK - Jeff

Pole -

I think is all part of the 'labeling game' - in other words judging by categorizing everyone into one cubby-hole or another.

I certainly think that it has a positive effect (from the WTS standpoint) on keeping witnesses in line. I think the 'carrot' idea is reinforced with the 'stick' - if you are not in a postition, you are relegated to third string status, ignored, sort of a mini-shunning. Trying to bring you back to your 'senses'. It certainly carries the feel of mind control as practice by some very accomplished organizations in the past.

Jeff

78

what is the purpose of this site, anyway?

by xochsi in

jw
friends

?

AK - Jeff

JLL

One of two things;

One - you are an impostor - spy - for the WT

Two - you have no idea the pain that the WT can inflict on those who leave - they bind and hold you in fear for perhaps decades - then turn on you like a vicious dog when you question the moral integrity of the organization - Result: no friends, no family, no idea at first what to do about it.

I vote #1 -

Jeff

11

i need help learning about ths religion.....i have no one else to ask

by needinfo in

AK - Jeff

***Is Your Religion the True One? W68 7/1 page 398***
It is natural that you should desire not to be misled. But how can you avoid it? How can you know for sure that your religion is the true one? It can be done by finding out whether its teachings are supported by God?s Word, which Jesus said is the truth. (John 17:17) Also by determining the kind of fruitage the religion produces. Fine, wholesome fruitage is an indication that the religion is the true one, whereas bad fruitage is an indication that it is false.?Matt. 7:16-23.
So the test is a relatively easy one to make. If a religion is not in accord with what the Bible teaches, then it is not in harmony with truth. It is not the true religion. (Rom. 3:4) You have nothing to fear in examining your beliefs by the standard of God?s Word, for if you have the true religion you can only be reassured. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to eternal life.?John 17:3.

The above quote from the Watchtower shows the importance of doing what you are doing. Most of the balance of the article is trying to lead the reader away from really doing that - just using leading questions that will lead to the Watchtower society. Most people are just shallow enough to accept that reasoning. Also most witnesses never think that they should 'examine their religion' - just that others should.

Do a deep investigation - do not fear the WTS - let the facts speak for themselves.

I would suggest in addition to the above - read Raymond Franz' books - Crisis or Conscience and/or In Search of Christian Freedom - they have opened the eyes of many that have undertaken an honest evaluation of the organization's claim to being the 'truth' .

Success in your ventures - "The truth will set you free"

Jeff

6

Choosing life vs death

by JustTickledPink in

jw
friends

i watched "the hours" last night on tv and there is julianna moore talking about how depressed she was in her loveless marriage that she thought about suicide.

then she decided that her life in that marriage was death.

she changes her mind about suicide and choose to live, she chooses life.. she walked away from her husband and her 2 kids and abandoned them... it's really so sad in the movie... but her line really got to me that "that life was death, i chose life, i left" .

AK - Jeff

JTP

Well said -

For the 30 some years that I was an active witness, my Dad always told me the same thing - I gave up everything to be one of those people - and when I started having doubts and missing meetings - where were they? I lost 9 family members in just over two years - including my step-Mom and my real Mom and my only Brother - since my brother was a witness, the witnesses came in droves to the funeral. Otherwise I never had a concerned elder even send a card - no flowers, - in short NO LOVE.

So all that I gave up for these 'friends' was not even enough to merit simple love and respect in the time of one's deepest losses. And I am -technically at least- still in good standing. How sad.

Well now, even though my presence on these boards indicates a difficulty in shedding the organization and it's effects - I am moving forward and living - my Dad and I play golf twice a week - I enjoy life, smell the flowers. I am living now. And I am living a Christian lifestyle too. I hope to live under the care of Christ, however he arranges that, on heaven or earth. But I am not waiting to live. I am doing it now.

Thanks for posting such a positive outlook for us all...

Jeff

20

How many of you still hope to live forever?and where,? based on what?

by ko38 in

.

call me crazy but from reading the bible ,assuming one believs it its pretty plain at least the earth will stand to times indefinate.please if you have an opinion please give the support to it.. thanks in advance.. i dont know nuttin.

AK - Jeff

Seeing as how 99% of the WTS views are now debunked in my eyes, although I loved the idea of life on earth in paradise, I have come to no conclusions. The reason being is that we can make anything biblical say what we want it to, hence all the different religious ideas. I have found comfort in not knowing for sure what to hope for and in giving myself over to whatever His will is for me. It feels good to see myself "holding his hand" even if I don't know for sure where he's taking me. Where ever we end up either has to be better, or it won't matter anyway. I'll have loved the "walk".

I think these are beautiful thoughts - I am not sure anymore - although I do absolutely believe that God has intended life beyond what we have now. I do accept the Bible - and hope that I can live in a way to attain salvation - but the WT has made it hard to know what to believe exactly anymore - Once we debunked the WT - now we have to reprogram - and it took me 30 years to get where I am - hope the de-bunking is shorter -- Jeff

24

Devote Parents advice me to Disassociate.

by chok in

can someone explain to me what this is all about.

to those of you who dont know me, i starting fading a year ago now, cant believe just how quick that has gone.

well i separated from my husband, met somebody else, who i have been living for a few months now.

AK - Jeff

there seems to be a fixation with getting things 'tied up' - either get back to the 'truth' or get out officially. My wife and I have decided - at least at the moment - that we will let them make the next move - why should we play into their hands here -?

ray franz even mentioned that one CO got an inactive sister to just sign the back of a note scribbled on an envelope stating that she didn't want to be a witness - the next week she was DA'd -

To bad they don't put so much effort into love and concern - hmmmmm

Jeff

13

thank you all for the welcome.some asked me to tell my story. heres the 411

by ko38 in

my parents became jws in 1973. i was 6.my father was a very abusive person wanting to fight anyone and everyone.of course my mother and moreso myself usualy caught the brunt of his abuse.he whipped me with a belt i believe as hard as he could and did not discrimenate as to where he hit youie in the face legs back you get the picture.. well my mom was thrilled when he agreed to study the bible with these nice people.they taught love and i think that was what appealed most to her.my dad was an obsessive compulsive person so he first argued points in the bible with them,but soon found he was no match for them.so he started taking his studies seriously and read the bible like crazy,i mean 5or6 hours at a time every day.. after a while they were baptised and things got better...................for a while.he then became very demanding with regard to studying for the watchtower all the meetings and personal reading.i could barely read,but most of all he became even less tolerant than before.the beatings continued sometimes worse.my mom had called the elders over no less than 6 times in a 5 year period to report his treatment of her and his beating me.as you may guess the elders did nothing.they sited some scriptures and admonished me to give my father respect.i thoght the elders would help me and make him stop.but they didnt.so i lived life on pins and needles with him going to every meeting studying (well you guys know we studied a lot).until age 16, my father started his fits and i ran away.boy did i go crazy then.worldly people wild parties you name it.to make a long story shorter i was living fot the day because tomorrow i may die.. i was recomended bad association during my absence,i got marrie at age 18 and went back to meetings and wow i was no longer bad association.that marriage lasted 2 years we had a daughter wich we shared custody and a lot of times my mother and father would watch her.

well during that period my father abused her sexually.my ex told me about it.said my daughter told her .well stupid me i didnt believe it and i guess the elders didnt either because they did nothing.. i was never baptised and drifted away again.flash to 1 year ago now married 10 years 3 more children and who knocks on the door you guessed it watchtower toting smily faced jws.well i always believed and carried guilt around all the time.so of course a agree to a study soon i have the whole family studying.the elder i studied with kept telling me i would be an elder soon,i didnt understand then how that could be.i soon realised that was his way of motivating me.well my world crashed down when my 2nd oldest daughter was molested by my father.i never should have trusted him to watch her and i feel enormous guilt.. my father did this while innactive but almost immediately he went back to jws like nothing happened.i wont go into some of the drama between him and myself but bottom line the elders were told and he was reproved he admitted to sexual misconduct and all that happened was restrictions.they said he could never go in field service by himself but he does.he will never be an elder but other than that he is a member in good standing.this stumbled my wife and i greatly.in the interim the elder from our seperate congregation (not my fathers) was in a big rush to have my same 12 year old daughter baptised.well she was at the summer convention.. i later found out that he was up for promotion to circuit ovsr.while a very good teacher you could tell he was all about position.

my wife bought crisis of conscience and slowly had me reading it too.

AK - Jeff

Welcome ko38;

Sorry to hear such sadness in your story - I have seen hundreds like it though - seems too common.

Sounds like you are still trying to get a grip on the sexual abuse issues - that must be terible to deal with all around. I don't know if it is proper on this board to name other sites - but www.silentlambs.org is dedicated to dealing with that issue - just a thought.

Any way welcome -

Jeff

46

What is your most ridiculous example of being shunned?

by formerout in

i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.

an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.

after a minute the wife turned and saw me.

AK - Jeff

In reading over these posts, I noticed the frequency of which non-DF'd or DA'd witnesses were being shunned. This happens to me all the time. Just a few years back I was the center of the congregation - servant body, pioneer, ect ect - now inactive - and unknown to the brotherhood (or they would x-me) I am apostate. I will never go back.

Here is the point I make;

Shunning is supposed to be after one has been x'd right?
If one has never been reproved, counselled, reprimanded, in any way where do the 'shunning orders' come from?
So, it must be gossip - isn't that a disfellowshipping sin. And it must start with the elders, since they would be the only ones with any idea that we have 'deflected' - and even their's is speculation since I have never been confronted.
Hypocrites - sinning to protect the flock from sinners, who they don't know have sinned for sure!
And making a**es of themselves doing so!

Jeff

AK - Jeff

Posts by AK - Jeff